Why do parents turn their children against the parent? How often is this tactic falsely used against a ‘good” parent. We know narcissists and abusers know exactly how to “get” us, “push” the right buttons. Sadly this tactic is used so often courts do not really understand who to side with.
Join my discussion with Carolyn a mom that has not seen her three children in four years.
Transcription:
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Hi there. This is Tracy and today. I am with Carolyn
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I met carolyn through the domestic violence coalition of Colorado and
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She’s got quite a story to tell and I’m really grateful that you’re here to
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talk with me and help my
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subscribers
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understand
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the other side of domestic violence emotional abuse is always a part of
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domestic violence, but
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What we want to talk about today is child alienation, so tell me
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How are we married I was married for just under ten years
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To my ex-husband and we have three [children] together
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okay, and
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Did it start off?
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Like bad, did you walk in and something just wasn’t right?
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no in fact um I fell in love with him because he had this boyish charm [and] made me laugh and
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We seem to have a great time together
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And we had a lot of fun together, so no it. It wasn’t an immediate thing
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It was very gradual [I]
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Recall that you know I felt like the moment we got married
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Is when I became his possession [it] wasn’t until that
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Point that I felt that way, but once we got married I felt that way. I think that’s very common
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I hear it from a lot [of] the
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Survivors and the
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subscribers to my channel is
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that
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it’s the love-bombing phase the idealization phase and then boom you get married and
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Sometimes I’ve heard within minutes the person is completely changed, and then that’s what happened for you
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yeah, I would say that wow and
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um
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what kind of abuse did you undertake with this man over the years sure so a lot of it was a
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Lot of it was emotional
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Um definitely mental a lot of [gaslighting] was going on
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I I felt like I was walking around on eggshells most of the time and that I lived with Dr.. Jekyll and Mr.
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Hyde I never quite knew
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Exactly what I was going to get
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There was a lot of infidelity on his part that
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was always blamed on me not doing the right thing or not being the right wife or
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Not caring about him the way that somebody else may care about him
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So I was I was always feeling like everything with my fault there were several occasions where?
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There was demand. No physical abuse
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when I was pregnant with our oldest child
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Caitlyn’s he punched someone he kicked me in the stomach and
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as he got up he ended up scratching my face and
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but the most and
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Then there were a couple other after that there was another one where?
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It was really the only time that I really [feared] for my life
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[he] had me in a headlock [and]
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I thought he was going to snap my neck
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And at that same point he also had his hand over my mouth [and] my nose with when I couldn’t breathe and I
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ended up with huge scratch marks on my face because I was trying to pry his hands off of my face and
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for whatever reason he
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He let go of me that night
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And I was able to call 9-1-1 and he did receive a domestic violence charge
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a Dui because he come home after a binge drinking and
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also resisting arrest of course it was all drop down to harassment and then
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while we were going through our divorce he came over to the marital home and
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he
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He pushed me out of the back of the u-Haul because he had grabbed our youngest daughter’s car seat
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and I didn’t have money to replace the car seat and
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He had grabbed that and so I was trying to [grab] get into you how to get out and he pushed me out of that
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what I didn’t know is that he had a baseball bat in the cab of the
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Evol as well as breast knuckles
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And he told my daughter my oldest daughter whom he dropped moffat. This is a baseball bat for killing people not for playing baseball
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And he actually came asking me with the baseball bat in front of my children then again
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I was able to call mainland when immediately and he was arrested again for
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actually this time felony domestic violence and harassment [and] he also received a charge from
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The Department of Social [services] for child Endangerment because it happened in front of our children
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and again it was all um
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Dropped down to lesser charges and the only time that he actually did was six months in jail for work
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Release because he violated his probation with another Dui
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So this man that you were married to he sounds evil and he sounds
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disturbed and
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Yet he gets out of
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being arrested and and has everything dropped down because I know you know I was arrested for domestic violence and
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Trespassing and and I’ve had a year [of] hell
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So how does somebody and has done me terrific things just walk, how does the system? What that happens?
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I don’t know how the system lets it happen um
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The one thing I can tell you is [that] he he really believes that he is completely above the law
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and that he is untouchable, [and] I know that a lot of
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People who are narcissistic and also have personality disorders or you [know] personality disorders basically um?
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Think the same way that they are
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Untouchable that they’re above the law that nobody can touch them nobody can hurt them
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[I] think that money in the you know the attorneys that he’s been able to get to represent him have a huge influence
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You know I you know I also think [that] in some ways I’ve made a lot of mistakes too. You know
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here I saw somebody that was getting ready to you know go to jail and
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Not only was he financially supporting um
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His new wife and her three children, but he was also giving me financial support
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And I also saw that two families could potentially crumble if you were to go to jail for any length of Time I
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actually spoke up at his sentencing and asked for
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Work release so that he [continues] supporting both families because without his financial support
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We would crumble now
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You know there’s a lot of things that I think I could have done [a] lot differently but at the time
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I thought I was doing the right thing and and
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What I changed things knowing what I know now
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Absolutely, but at the time. I didn’t know I thought I was doing all the right [things] not
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That’s the the thing with any of us as victims. We are good people. We want the good thing
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We give them the benefit of the doubt
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Constantly but in all [of] this that he has done to me
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I mean
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That’s just a bunch of strikes on the card you know and I would think judges and police would be like okay bad dude
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Nice wife
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But where are your children today? He has custody of my children and
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your three children live with him
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Full-time, and do you see them. No, I haven’t seen my daughter’s now in
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over five years, and I haven’t seen my [son] in over three years [and] I’m actually still court order to
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Have visitation with my son and also have phone calls price a week, and you don’t get them know
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so
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What kind of thinks has he done to alienate your children from you because if you’ve got a court order to see them
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Isn’t it just as simple as okay? He’s mine on Tuesday. Bye
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No, it’s not that simple [um] I’ve been told that my friend doesn’t want to have anything to do with me
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He is getting ready to turn
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Ten and
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So for the last three [years] he you know
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I’ve told that he doesn’t have anything to do with me
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And you can’t possibly make you know a small child get into a car
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kicking and screaming and go for a visit, and I guess there’s part of me that we disagree you know as a
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healthy parent and a healthy relationship with your children [you] encourage them [to] have a relationship with their other parent no matter what and
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Even if they thought that I was in parent, or that I was a danger of some
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Sort you put things into place so that you can still have a [relationship] with your children there are times when I feel like
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You know people that are sitting in [prison] have more rights to their children than I do
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I’m denied having any kind of pictures or
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Knowing about any special events that they’re going to or any of the milestones that they have in school
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I’m not allowed to know what’s going on with them and
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You know there was a time
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[not] too long ago probably about a year [ago] where we accidentally ran into my oldest daughter and my ex-husband at a
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sporting event and for
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You know two hours after that I was belittled through text messages about how I should have never shown up
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And I should have known better
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and I’m harassing them and I’m stalking them and just going on and on and on about how I’m
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Creating all of this Chaos in his life
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Because I showed up at a sporting event that I had no clue they would even be act um but yet. It’s my fault and
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You know in all reality? He’s the one who’s creating the Chaos not me. Oh yeah, and he’s [gaslighting] you and he’s
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Telling your children [bad] things about you
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Yeah, and like I know we have to go through parenting class when you’re getting a divorce and you are told not to
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ever tell the children about
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bad things about their parents so that they can keep this connection and
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Be with their mom or their dad
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That has to be so hard I can believe it my son at the age of probably six years old um [I]
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had told me
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How he was mad at me because I wasn’t paying child support
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wow, which wasn’t true at the time but
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That my son and six years old told me that he was mad at me [because] I wasn’t paying child support
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How would a six-year-old know that unless [daddy] sitting there dreaming it into his head and telling them bad things about you
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That is the classic child alienation
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Kind of you know he’s going by the manual
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Listen to just sit there
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And tell them bad things about you make them afraid if you don’t when you’re crazy
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Tell them you’re drunk um you know lots of people are told. They’re a whore
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I mean, whatever is it’s something that the children should never ever ever hear sure so yeah, I mean
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I’m my kids are are probably told cuz it’s one of things that he tells me I know I
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happen to be a recovering [alcoholic] and so he has convinced my children that I’m still drinking and I’m a
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Drug addict that [my] new husband is probably a sexual predator
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[it’s] very interesting with parental alienation or this type [of] thing that happens with children after an abusive relationship
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They can
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they can see a picture of a very loving moment with their parent that they’ve been alienated from but the
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Alienator Will
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twist it and turn it and say
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but oh
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You don’t know what happened behind the scenes
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[now] your mom or your dad was doing this that day and your mom or your dad was saying this about you or the other
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People that were around them and so now this child has taken this very loving
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Memory and now it’s become an unpleasant memory
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Just like that, and now they’re able to
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believe the lies as though it’s their own reality and
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[we] call this
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Programming like I have things that from when I was a child
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you’re programmed, and this is the programming [that] he’s doing to alienate your children against you ah
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so
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You’re doing a lot of really good things
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you have decided that you [are] not going to let this happen again and
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And you’re going to help as many people as [you] can don’t tell us what you’re doing
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Sure, so um I did quite a bit of volunteering with the Colorado coalition against domestic violence
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I am on their survivor caucus with many other women including my husband and [in] Tracy
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Um I also serve on their policy board
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I’ve also in
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Volunteer for other
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organizations also, but I think my
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my biggest is
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being able to get into the state legislature and
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to speak with
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Colorado representatives as well as Colorado state senators and trying to Express to them
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about the concerns of parental alienation
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the biggest problem with parental alienation is it’s one of these terms that has been overused in the court system by
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abusers
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Because what happens is she gets custody of the children because he’s been abusive and now
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Even though she may not have said anything to the children the [children]
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The children don’t necessarily want to have a relationship with somebody who’s going to be mean to them
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And so they’ve gone back to court saying I don’t have a relationship with my kids because my ex-wife
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Who happened to be the victim of domestic violence is now turning my children against me
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And so it’s going to become one of these terms that people a lot of professionals cringe at when they hear
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Which is very unfortunate?
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and I’ve had the [opportunity] to speak with other professionals and say you know why don’t we give [it] a different term and
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The reality of it is is that you know you got to call it what it is
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And this is what it is, and yes unfortunately has been extremely overused
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But in those cases where it is such an extreme. There’s different levels of parental alienation
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You know there’s the mild parental ation kind of medium level and then there’s the extreme and my case happens to be one of those
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Extremes, but even just telling your children. You know what your dad’s a deadbeat because he’s not paying child support
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You know parents need to be very careful about what [they] say to their [children] because they are
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Very they’re sick to sponges. They take all this information in and it’s so easy to manipulate them into
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Thinking what you want when in reality all they wanted to have two loving parents
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[and] it doesn’t matter if he’s a deadbeat or if she’s a deadbeat, or it shouldn’t matter at all. What’s important?
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Is that these children came into the world because two people apparently fell in love and yeah?
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you couldn’t get along with each other and you got divorced now the adults and get over it right and
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Do what’s best for your children, but a lot of people don’t see it [that] way. [no] it becomes a war and
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Unfortunately the children end up becoming pawns in this more, and that’s exactly what happened to my children
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and in some of the most extreme cases
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like mine
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I feel that it is another form of domestic violence, and it’s definitely a child abuse issue
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And it’s to me the court systems are not helping you there. You know are you listening?
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They aren’t educated. They don’t know about any of this and yet
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They’re making decisions on people’s life and children’s life to me. That is like
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That is the crime is that our judges and our?
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Lawyers that are defending and trying to help us if they’re across the table from someone who was the abuser?
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But has this story to tell
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They’re not understanding all the facts don’t think it’s some kind of child services involved sometimes to help
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Them but even even child services doesn’t totally understand a lot of this you would [think] that
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You know the department of child and Family services
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Would be educated would be [able] to understand domestic violence
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But they don’t even understand some of the things that go on and in fact it was the department of human services
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that gave custody to my children you know of my children to my
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Ex-husband and they refused to look at the fact that he had a long [history] of domestic violence
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He refused to look at the fact that he had for Dui
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But because I had relapsed as a recovering [alcoholic] and openly admitted in court
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[I] was obviously the evil parent because I had an issue plus. I was also in another abusive relationship
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That wasn’t a healthy situation or family situation for my kids
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And he was a much better parent than I was at the time
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And so that’s basically what they said is that I was the one who was unhealthy
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And they weren’t [looking] at all of the past issues
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so there’s a lot more education and training that needs to be brought to the [attention] of
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not only the judges but atTorneys and guardian enlightened and
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social workers that are making these major life decisions for children and family so that
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Families aren’t torn apart like this there are so many things that can be put in as precautionary
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measures to ensure child safety
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but it doesn’t necessarily [have] to come down to yanking a
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Healthy parent out of their life or a loving parent out of their life
0:17:47.600,0:17:50.929
You [know] we all go through situations in our lives where we?
0:17:51.510,0:17:56.899
Struggle with certain things it doesn’t make us a bad parent it. Just means that we’re human, right
0:17:57.630,0:17:59.430
Really good
0:17:59.430,0:18:02.269
All right, well we’re going to do another video in a minute
0:18:02.300,0:18:08.060
we’re going to introduce Tom Caroline’s new husband Randy because I
0:18:08.400,0:18:11.930
Met him also through the coalition, and he’s a very special guy
0:18:11.940,0:18:16.130
[and] I want to bring his perspective into this
0:18:16.590,0:18:21.439
There anything last words that you might want to tell somebody that’s going through this
0:18:21.440,0:18:25.730
What’s your big piece of advice? What should they do to protect themselves?
0:18:26.730,0:18:29.240
protect yourself and protect your children I
0:18:31.350,0:18:37.639
Did a lot of things that I thought were in my children’s best interest like allowing them to have a relationship with their father
0:18:38.100,0:18:43.909
Which I still think is a good idea, but I put my guard down and I let my guard down don’t let your guard down
0:18:45.120,0:18:48.109
Perfect. Thank you, so much. My [dear] that’s it.
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